May 3rd DAO Call
*Assembly AI generated transcripts may not be 100% accurate, listen to video for original audio.
DJSTRIKANOVA's General Summary
Discussed enhancing qualifications systems, creating a way to incentivize qualification maintainers by allowing them a way to charge for use of the qualification. Using non-transferable NFT's as a way to track qualifications. Storing worker metrics within NFT qualifications, such as how many tasks have been completed with that qualification.
Discussed upcoming update for DAO Dashboard. Allowing DAO members to select NFTs as their profile picture.
Discussed outreach with Hivemapper, Ocean Protocol and hackathon planning.
Discussed updating DAO Agenda to use IPFS and the DAO Dashboard instead of being a Google Form.
Assembly AI Generated Transcript
Rochelle
Now I'm following you.
DJSTRIKANOVA
I started a discussion, I mean the recording anyway.
Rochelle
That would be open instead of Amazon, like locking it down. And they're the only provider to upcharge.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Another implementation I see of this is on EOS. I've noticed a lot of work, like groups of people, right? Like, there's the bees, there's a lot of language specific groups. And one way I could see it happening is they could do a qualifier, basically. I don't know what the best way to call it would be, but kind of like a protectionist type of thing where groups want to create tasks, but for people only they know, right? Like a way to reward people participating in a group so they create a qualification specific to their group. And so if you use that qualification, the group itself can focus on doing it. It's kind of like if you have a manager and you have a bunch of workers and so the manager gets like a smaller fraction, the worker gets most of the EFX, but the manager has the incentive to make sure the workforce is there.
David B
Yeah, indeed. I actually slowly be sure that I'm really starting to like this idea of how then the people who manage the qualifications will also help maintain a certain equality. It becomes their responsibility and they also get paid for handling this responsibility. And then you could have competing qualifications where the better ones bubble up depending on how a certain manager is able to maintain a high quality of the work that is being done by the people who have their qualification.
Rochelle
Yeah, we sort of had a version of that with Kraft Heinz because oh my, was that a lot of work. Just maintaining the qualifier test, awarding the qualifications, monitoring how people were working, taking them off of the work by removing their qualifications and then identifying really high performers and giving them a higher level one. And then those were validators and stuff. Miguel was all through that with me because he was one of the three top Portuguese translators with that whole giant project. But it's a lot of work managing a workforce like that.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Exactly. And that's why I think we need and right now that's not really being incentivized, the whole management.
Rochelle
I started kind of a mini pilot with that, testing some things around. And I did it with the Dow, but nobody wanted to participate. And I was having the Dow workers or the Dow guardians being the only people who had this validation qualification. And then I would have them validate some image tasks, but nobody really did anything with that. But that was me trying to incentivize the Dow guardians to be able to be validators, to check the general workforce's work like a tiny subgroup. It was part of my research and development of the bigger workforce management stuff that I have planned for when this gets going.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, I think I missed the start, but I really like the topic. Of course I read the Discord message and this is a topic we've talked about over the years. It came up a couple of times that the qualifications are one of the most important valuable parts for the network. I think to get requesters on board we need to guarantee skill sets for workers and they don't have the time or energy or it's way too difficult to curate but because you should get rewarded, right, that you should get it incentivized for maintaining qualifications. So it's actually, I think, a thing where there should be a business model or like an incentivization model around it and this kind of last time we talked about it was quite a long time ago and we always sort of went back and forth. So this idea has been maturing for a while but when DJ, when you wrote it in Discord and how you described it just now, I think it's exactly how it should be. So there's a few ideas, right? I don't know what's the best one out of those, but I think that's definitely the scope and exactly how we should structure it. I think it should be also internal to effect networks architecture so it should be like one of these core elements about importance. I think this is exactly something we need and I think now is exactly the time to add something like that because it's like a feature that we're ready for adding because we have basically things in place. We need to optimize a lot about the smart contract still, but we have everything in place to start embedding something like this. And just to throw out my thought on how that would work, because I have thought about it. Also, after DJ posted it, I was considering some of the options for how can you get rewarded for people using your qualification and I was thinking it would be maybe nicest to just have a fixed fee on. Each qualification. And that's basically a fee. You get paid for every task done. And that's sort of one. Like, there are so many ways to do it right. This is the one I'm starting to feel really towards, because it means you can just say, hey, I created this qualification. It's for Dutch English translation because I'm good at it. And I curated a workforce and and trained them and they have this this qualification and if you want to use it, you have to pay, for example, five EFX per task, and it could be embedded in that qualification. So every qualification would have like an embedded fee and it means that when you create a campaign and you select the qualifications, you're basically like it's like a shopping cart or something, right? You're basically adding fees on top so you're paying the worker maybe 50 EFX and then there is going to be the Dutch qualification, which is five EFX. Maybe there's going to be like a qualification for high being, I don't know, crypto savvy or something. If it's like translations about cryptocurrency. So someone crypto savvy, maybe it's a one EFX qualification or something. So that means that six get added, six EFX get added for the two qualifications. Then there's maybe 50 going to the worker and then there is 10% still going to the Dow, which is a percentage wise to me. That made sense when I thought about it, because if you do percentage wise, you could have, like, people trying to put the rewards at zero and then distribute rewards themselves, so they sort of get around that. Or if the tasks are really expensive, then there would be like a massive fee. And also if you would do a lot of qualifications on one campaign, you would get an issue where it's over, where you can get more than 50% or 60% of the task reward, which would also be a problem. Anyway, that was my sort of thoughts on it, but yeah, excellent topic.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah, I was going to say that to be fair on the percentage thing, if it's too low, workers just won't do it.
Jesse Eisses
Right. But I have Dutch qualification, it takes 10%. And then there is the would you be able to do minimum? Yeah, because the only reason I suggest.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Percentages, because sometimes EFX can be volatile. What do you intend?
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, that's a really good point. Because you can assume that the task rewards, they will correlate with the EFX price fluctuation and this would ensure that. Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't think about the fluctuation of the price, which means you would have to sort of have dynamic pricing in your qualifiers, which might not be ideal, or you would expect maybe qualification holders or qualification maintainers to sort of adjust prices. Yeah, good point, good point.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah. Maybe it should just be expected for them to adjust their prices. I'm not sure. Yeah, I feel like I don't think I'd be too worried about just invoke people trying to abuse it by setting their tasks reward too low because I kind of just trust the workers to not do the tasks if they're not worth it. So I don't think percentage would be too much an issue. But maybe you can also add like some sort of allow people to use some logic or something, like either percentage or at minimum this amount or something like that. I don't know.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, percentage might work. I was just thinking if I have a really expensive one or something and I just use like I just want to add a qualification and it could get like we have to think maybe about the scenarios that happen. Right. Maybe it's not a scenario that I would have, but if I would have like a massive one, like subtitle a movie or something. But maybe it makes sense. Yeah, the percentage wise could work if we structure it nice and we make sure it makes sense in the logic wise.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Well, you convinced me now that maybe a flat fee is better.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah I have an internal dialogue. I think both sides have ups and pros and cons but I think either of those is a really nice way to do it just per task, have a fee and you could sort of see when creating the batch you can sort of see how much would go to you would be paying to the qualification maintainers. I think that's an excellent set up and qualifications it would be like a shop of qualifications, right? A qualification would have a little description and maybe a pitch about how do we maintain the quality for it so you convince people to use it.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah, that's exactly when I did my stable diffusion thing. I kind of just put it on hold when I got involved into setting up the qualifications because I feel like the whole system can be improved. And yeah, like kind of a market where you can see the qualifiers and you can see their pitches, maybe see how many workers are on there, how many tasks have been completed with it, stuff like that. So that way you can just shop around and the workforce part can be done for you already. You don't have to get people to do your qualification because I think that's also the ideal. For example, some of these qualifications can be pretty thorough, right? And so even if there's some tax there some workers may give up and stuff like that and so if every requester has their own qualifications maybe that will discourage people. So yeah, I think that just like a shop for qualifications is a good idea.
Rochelle
One thing you mentioned was, well, what if it costs so much to have all these calls that people put the task payout low to Circumvent? And on another platform that was happening? And what requesters were doing was they were having the tasks be a penny. And then they would say, a correctly done task, you'll get a bonus of whatever for each task. And then when the batch was done, the requester would validate and then tally what bonuses to give to what workers, and then they would bonus them. Well the platform wised up to that and instead of taking away the bonus structure they started charging requesters a percentage on top of the bonus they were paying out to recoup it. So that's also one thing we got to keep in mind too if we do want a bonus system for requesters to bonus good workers, which I think is nice, we also have to implement something like that in place as well just to head off the fee avoidance.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah, that would be useful too because with the stable diffusion tasks I ended up doing it just like that. I had a competition where I kept the payment low but then I would look at the images and the best one I would send like a bonus of VFX manually and it would be nice to be able to do that through the system.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, for sure. That's a good one. That would be nice to add a bonus. We need the validation but we could already have that where you just send some EFX we can do just a tip type of thing yeah.
Rochelle
And that go to the Dow with the network fees.
David B
Or it could be like a randomized control trial where you would send 10% or 5% of the tasks being done and the one who's managing the qualification part of their job in order to recoup the fee is then to actually validate the tasks that have been submitted.
Rochelle
I don't know because if say I'm using your qualification, David, to do my stuff and my data sets you don't have knowledge about my project, you would have to, I don't know, I guess learn all about it learn what I'm looking for and stuff to be able to validate it correctly, you know what I'm saying?
David B
Yeah, but I'm assigning that qualification so I should have some domain knowledge about the qualification and I should be able to at least verify that the work that you submitted isn't scammy for example.
Rochelle
Scammy? Yes, but say you make a qualification for French language because you're a French ### Jesse Eissesut like with translations something can be right but it can also be wrong. I don't know.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Well, that reminds me you also have basically something called an anti qualification. What I call it is when you basically flag workers who do bad work.
Rochelle
Yeah, we call it exclude but yeah.
DJSTRIKANOVA
So that too can also be something that for example if we have this incentivization what's stopping people just doing that? If there would be a way for people to review tasks and then flag people and then offer the exclude option that works the same way where you have to pay extra for that exclude qualification or the inversion really? And then that way there's like an incentive for people to look for bad work.
David B
That taken to an extreme can also lead to undesired behavior.
Rochelle
Yeah, my thinking is that part of the platform, there should be a way for requesters to report bad workers, and then that's where the dow part of the workforce or the platform management team goes and reviews tasks a worker has done and stuff, and democratically decides if a worker should be taken off the platform or not, that kind of thing. Because as a worker, I don't want anyone just being able to take my qualification off completely if I bomb one requester's group of tasks. But say a different requester group of tasks takes the same qualification and I can do well on theirs because their work is a little bit different than requester A. But requester A and B both use the same qualification on their batches. Do you see what I'm saying?
DJSTRIKANOVA
Well, yeah.
Jesse Eisses
So how would it work with you call them anti qualifications but like the qualifications for to disallow like how do we reject it? We call them reject qualifications. That's a bit of a weird concept, maybe because if you have a qualification like like professional translator, right, and and you have a fee on it and and it has, like a page and you're trying to sell it or you're trying to have people use it because you receive also rewards for it, then I don't think there should be, like, another qualification that's rejected from professional translator. French. I think it would be like you just don't have it right so we should be able to remove that qualification from someone and they won't have it before we had it, of course, mainly for being able to reject people from a specific campaign. So it's a bit of a different these type of qualifications are more sort of like this personal one. These are the ones that actually I think the requester wants to maintain themselves because they're not generic, maybe. And they're like, I don't want this specific worker in my campaign because he messed up or he doesn't hit the bill or he doesn't read the instructions or he doesn't fit the right vibe or something. You should be able to, I think, do that. And there is the global one, right, where someone is just doing bad in general. And those are sort of the ones you do want to have more broadly, where it's like Rochelle said, where workers are multiple times reported or something and we have some Dow managed, appointed people to go over it, moderate it and and then you should be able to end up on the blacklist of the platform.
Rochelle
I think exclusion or block list ones, they should be just available to a requester to personally add on their own campaigns for specific workers that they don't like and then report the worker. And then I think a global one. Yeah, that needs to be decided by Dow validators.
Jesse Eisses
So there should be definitely a free I think, a free qualification. Like blocked workers, right. Or banned workers. And that should just be a default on the campaign, I think. And that's managed by probably by the Dow, maybe some people are appointed to be able to hand out that qualification, and that's managed by those who are appointed, perhaps by the Dow. I think that's something we could think about because the Dow is getting the 10% fee. So I think it fits maybe within that sort of responsibility scope to maintain these base quality things or we have a fee on it could as well be an option, but like a reward on that qualification. But I think that it fits in that scope, in that structure.
David B
We can add some nuance to it where we can create a warning NFD where the user then gets every time they get a warning they get a new NFT. And so when they get five warnings, then they're completely banned. But then each campaign can kind of regulate for themselves, okay, I'm willing to accept workers that only have one warning strike NFT. And that way it's also a little bit more simple of regulating a new way of thinking about how we can at least give warnings to users.
Jesse Eisses
I like that. Yeah, that's a great concept. Maybe I think that would only work. You call them NFDS, which is cool because we've thought about making them NFDS. But if the qualifications would expire, that would really work. Right? If your warnings expire, then at some point maybe if you have five warnings you can do nothing, but the warnings do expire after some time. And maybe if you have five, you get like completely banned, which is maybe a different qualification where that lasts even longer. Yeah, that's a good concept.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Do you think?
Jesse Eisses
And if you're NFD, that would be really cool. But that's maybe a different topic.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Another thing, this kind of like something different but worker metrics, like for example, how many tasks they completed.
Jesse Eisses
To provide them to requesters like basically have an.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Option where you can say I want any worker or I want, say somewhat experienced workers, something like that.
Jesse Eisses
All right, yeah, that's also important. Yeah, that's an important one too. There's two ways to do it, I guess. You can either have reward someone a qualification after performing X amount of work or you would need to sort of track a workers total completion of tasks in a global level and that we could use as like a filter metric. But yeah, it's a different like we talked about this also in the past, normally we handed out qualifications when people were really doing a lot of work. But it would be nice if that's just statistical calculated just from the platform metrics automatically calculated number to filter on. I guess that's what you're referring to more.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Well, yeah, I think in theory it should be automatic because all the tax are on the blockchain, at least the record of them being completed.
Jesse Eisses
What we did encounter before is the complexity is a little bit you could track how much someone did in total, but then there would be a big difference. Like someone would be really maybe good enough for doing selfie, no selfie, but then he would have done a lot of tasks there. But then when it came to translations, there would be such a different skill set that a lot of we had like this super worker flag where we gave a lot of workers that did pretty well, that flag. But then it basically didn't make sense for any translations anymore because they were just really not the same skill set. So we would sort of need to group how much you did in a category or maybe in a qualification or something. That would be cool. If you track how many tasks someone did within qualification yeah, that would be professional French and then that would be like you could have like a score on it, something like that.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah, I think if you could tie it to qualification that would be real good. The main reason I'm talking about it is with Finance smart chain it's very easy just to make a new account, right? The only barrier would be doing all the qualifications all over again, right? But if someone's determined if they get blacklisted they could just generate a new account right, and complete the qualifications again and so that would be only a small delay but if they have to have new tasks, like if there's like a minimum amount of tasks as well that represent activity, right? So really the main difference is do you have a worker who has zero activity, like completely fresh or do you have a work who has some activity and maybe age as well? I don't know, but we could maybe.
Jesse Eisses
Track it for each qualification, we could track for each worker how many tests they did and that could be like a metric in the platform. That's a really cool idea as well, making a note. But that could work, right? Because if a qualification is well defined and there's not going to be like every requester makes its own qualification, but if there is more generally maintained ones which have few as the direction we should take and that was how we started the discussion. To have more of that, then it makes a lot of sense because you could really identify who's done a lot of work within each of those and filters. So I think that again, really good point for that. Yeah, I'll write it down and let's see if that I think that would work well, it's different from a qualification because it's really like how much did you work in their specific qualification campaigns?
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah, I wonder if when people select qualification they could kind of have like a slider based on how strict they want it do they care if anyone has completed the task or do they want some tasks completed? Stuff like that, I guess and it will be useful to see those metrics because you don't want to make it so 0% of workers can do your tasks, right?
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, exactly. Could maybe even help you create, like, if you want to have like because every time we did a serious campaign, we ended up with this structure of we do the normal campaign and then the validation campaign, which is like a subset. So you could almost have that automatically divided where you have the validation part sort of that the platform puts the right workers in the right groups by how many tests they did, something like that needs a bit of thought, but I like the idea of it. And how do you guys feel about making qualifications? NFDS because I've been digging more and more into the atomic assets. They've been around for a long time, but they're not being used too much. Except for on pomelo, I feel. But I really like they work pretty well and we have them now as Avatars in the Dow really soon. But I think it might make sense to have qualifications be non transferable. NFDS. They almost are right? Except that we keep track of them ourselves in our own EOS tables instead of on atomic assets but if they're NFDS then you could actually filter as well you could have also normal NFDS as qualifications which might be cool. I think that's the main added value that you can have like overlap between like you can say I want only people with a pomelo astronaut, for example, in a campaign or I want only people from that have these. I don't know. I don't know if, for example, USBs as an NFD or something, but you could filter on stuff like that, which might be interesting.
David B
That's how this whole discussion got started in the first place that we ended up talking about qualifications. Yeah, no worries. I think most of us are on board with that idea. I was a little bit on the fence about it, but more and more I think I'm thinking about it. I also think it's a great idea working with the Atomic hub SDK as well. It's been really pleasant and I think it will help optimize certain parts of the platform especially with retrieving data.
Rochelle
Yeah, I'm all for it.
DJSTRIKANOVA
So if it's a sole bound NFT, is it not deletable?
David B
I did see that some of them are non transferable, so that's definitely a property that we can use. And some of them are also burnable. So that's another way of how we can kind of assign an NFD to somebody and take it away later on.
DJSTRIKANOVA
For example, because I was thinking, like, with the metrics, I wonder if you could write to the NFT, like, how much tasks the worker completed for that specific qualification.
Jesse Eisses
I was wondering exactly the same. I'm not sure how much you can do. I think there's quite a bit in Atomic Assets. Like you can have notifications on transfer and you can have all kinds of functionality. I think you can definitely make so bound once. But I'm more familiar with NFDS like the Ethereum compatible NFTs and there you have some standards but that's because every NFD deploys its own contract so you have a lot of flexibility in it and with Atomic Assets it's all within their contract. But I wonder if we can make NFD attributes writable by the NFD collection owner. That would be great because then what DJ said we could have keep track of the tasks done within the NFD and also to take away NFDS it wouldn't need to be burnable by the collection owner which I know in the Ethereum side of things there is some extensions that allow it. But then for atomic assets. We would need to figure out how much of that is possible.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Well, even if you can't burn it, you can probably just create a new NFT that kind of cancels out the old qualification. So I'm sure there's a workaround.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, exactly. That could always work to have the blocking version that cancels out the original.
David B
They do have pretty extensive documentation. So I'll take a look and see if I can come up with an answer. But yeah, in the meanwhile as well, we've been talking about NFTs. We've also been working on the proposals. Those are using NFDS then in order to set the profile picture. And at the moment, we whitelisted the pamela ones and the dot gems ones.
DJSTRIKANOVA
You should also make your own collection. So you can make my avatar one of them.
David B
Yeah, that would be great. I love the idea that effect will also make its own collection. How would we go about that?
Jesse Eisses
You mean to have a dow collection, right? For the effect. Like a collection of NFDS.
David B
Exactly.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah, for me, it's just so I can have my profile pick right now on the Dow. But I imagine the same could apply for other Dow members like you. You could have your own selfie as your profile picture.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, your profile picture is awesome. How did you create it? Is it private? Is it generated or is it I.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Mean, you could literally do it through their interface on their website. I have my own collection I made just to test things.
Jesse Eisses
But I mean, your avatar that you have here on Discord is an NFT, right?
DJSTRIKANOVA
Well, technically, yeah, it's kind of funny. I think it's like it's AI generated, like, two years ago by this obscure finance smart chain tool that generates NFTs. And I think it went defunct, so I don't even know what happened to it. But yeah, that's the source of my image. And so, yeah, it was an NFT, but it's a unique image. And then eventually I put it on Atomic Hub just to test it.
Jesse Eisses
Okay, Cool. But we should think about I think we should do an official NFD collection and maybe even Dow membership. Like every Dow member should be able to mint one of those. We can maybe even somehow try to have it represent Dow membership. Though I'm not sure if I was thinking about how to link it up with the Staking stuff, but maybe it's doable.
DJSTRIKANOVA
At the very least, we can have special participation. NFTs for people who vote every cycle, you have some special traffic and then I guess maybe like the High Guards, because they're the High Guards, they can just choose what image to upload, and that can be their profile picture.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, exactly. I think it's time we need to think of a really cool art style AI generator. Could be really cool. Or something like the effect pieces. Like crowd art could be cool.
DJSTRIKANOVA
It's Kind. Of a very on hold Fred, but I remember talking with Brie about creating those stickers, and I think the conversation kind of ended. But what was it called there?
David B
Gems.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah. So Dot Gems probably has artistic capabilities. They could help.
David B
Yeah, they sounded very motivated in the beginning. I also think that conversation ended. It would be great to get them on board and actually do a project with them.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah, you should follow up with them because I think it would be nice to have the Effect Network line of NFT graphics that can also be used as profile pictures. And then on top of that, some sort of rewards for the most active participants in the Dow, like special graphics. But yeah, I'm not really artistic, so I can't help too much with it other than say we should do it.
Jesse Eisses
We have Mid Journey and all the other AI generators. Maybe you can restrict it to a certain graphic style and generate stuff, maybe, especially for the Pope. But no, definitely. Let's check with Brie and the team that was working on these icons. That would be really nice to see.
DJSTRIKANOVA
If that's because they do I think they do a lot of NFTs themselves. So that's why I mentioned them. So they're pretty familiar with this.
David B
Yeah. I'm sure they can help us generate a couple of layers, and we can use those layers in order to generate a certain art style for ourselves. But that also brings me to the next topic that I also wanted to talk about, was, like, I'm in the middle of redesigning the dashboard right now in order to integrate the profile pictures. At the moment, most of the discussion is happening just in the slack and private. And I want to bring that whole discussion, like the whole thought process of what's happening, what design decisions, what components should be moved where, and kind of move that whole redesign discussion a bit more into the public. Up until now, we've been a bit more private and then building something and then publishing an update about it to the community. But I want to open up that whole process. And I was wondering how all of you feel about that.
DJSTRIKANOVA
I have nothing against it, though. Maybe at most, I don't think you may get too much participation other than me and a few other people, though.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, I think it's great to share what's going on. Duffy so that's great. Right. But we should come out with an updated we just come out with the update that things that we've been working on, and then when it's at a point like, this is it, what do you guys think? I think it's a nice way to get feedback and improve things, but we made great progress. I'm agreeing with you. We should definitely share it and maybe put out, like, you already created, like a sort of dummy hosted version. But we can put out a hosted alternative domain for it so people can see it already for feedback. But there's still work to be done, I think, before it's like else the feedback is going to be too obvious, I think, because there's gaping holes in it. I think we need to take it one step further and then have it as like an alternative interface ready.
David B
Okay, yeah. One con of this idea was that there would be too many direct personal opinions about how it should look like and that would kind of suck up a bit time. But it was more of an idea of how to incorporate the community a bit more in general with what's happening instead of just the GitHub updates channel.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Well, yeah, you could have your what do you call it? Like I think they call them development diaries. Right?
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, we can do development diaries. We've been up doing more updates lately and maybe we kind of do like a weekly update or screenshots.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Just don't make it deaf that you feel like you don't want to do it.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, that's true. There is a lot to share already, development diaries. But we have this channel and I think we just want to start using it for weekly screenshot. Update message from Mitavit, whoever Mikhail doing work on it. We can just post the updates coming through so that gives opportunity for feedback if people are interested in it.
David B
Okay, yeah. If there's anything very devi, I'll just post it and into the developer channel.
Jesse Eisses
Cool. Yes, let's do that.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Another topic. So you talked with Joshua, right, from the Hive Mapper, or rather he's not the fast stream and they contract for Hive Mapper.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah. That was a really interesting project. I think it was nice Josh came into the Discord and asked about it because he obviously used to be from Diffuse and the EOS ecosystem and now it's streaming fast. They're now doing a bunch of different projects, I think, like they support, but yeah, they are contracted by Hype Mapper to do development work and to work on creating basically their labeling platform. And I think it was really nice to see him coming into Discord and everyone responding and coming up with ideas. I think that's really effective way of onboarding. Nicely done. And then I did have an extensive conversation with him. I sent him a bunch of numbers and tips and ideas on how to set up their campaigns, but actually quite a nice chat. But he did say, like, in this case, I'm not sure if it's going to work out because he said, I'm just contracted by Hive Mapper, I'm pitching your idea to them. They really like what Effect is doing and they're actually quite excited to work with Effect Network on doing the annotations. But their intention is to do this in house. George, he just reached out to us because he out of excitement and because he knew us. But the Hypemap team, their intention is to do this in house. And if they are struggling, then they will come to us for at least taking on a chunk of the annotations because that's their primary concern and potentially like a real partnership for future integration, which is a different story. Right now, they're trying out if they can meet their labeling demands, and I'm getting frequent updates from them. We have to see how this plays out. It would be a really nice use case. They're in the same direction of thinking as we are with using crowd annotations and crowd talent. They're doing mapping, so they're having people have these dash cams in their cars and mapping stuff out. But it's like the same decentralized spirit. So I think that's a great match. I really hope they come back to us with the data set to annotate.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah, that will be real nice. And then I think I mentioned to you, even if they want to do everything in house, it'll be cool because their main token model is they want to sell the tools because they're paying people to label stuff and they're paying the honey for people to drive around and take pictures. So without something in the opposite direction, without a reason for people to buy the honey, it's not very sustainable model. Right. So maybe there can be some synergy there with building adapt that takes their data and then uses human workers to analyze it. One example I mentioned to you is, what if you could have workers scan roads for potholes and then once you have enough, like, this is a pothole and this is not a pothole, you could build a model that checks every inch of the road constantly for potholes. And so that way you can maintain roads better, stuff like that. So like a hackathon?
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, we could definitely suggest it. I think that's a nice follow up right now, because if they're taking longer now with their own process of annotations, we can suggest something like that. Let's do an annotation. Like, we annotate some data of what they're generating and try to enhance parts of it. So it's an interesting take as well. I think Josh will definitely be open for a chat about it. Yeah, it may be a few weeks from now when their bus is first sort of getting this on the road stage.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah. Aside from that, I know David, I sent you a form to follow up. You sent, like, an inquiry to orient protocol, right?
David B
Ocean protocol.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yes. Sorry. Ocean Protocol.
David B
Yeah, indeed. I sent them a request to see if they're willing to participate with the hackathon together, but they said no. But Gabby also got in touch with them, apparently, and she had a bit more success and she had a meeting with somebody and we're still waiting on that update. So it's not a complete no yet, but yeah, there's something in the works potentially there.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Okay.
David B
I also mentioned to Joshua that it would be interesting to do a hackathon with them. That would be really interesting combo of trying to incorporate Effect network with Hive Mapper and with their data needs and try to get developers to build out projects for all of those specific use cases that come up.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Right. And the appeal of hackathons. There can be use cases of which we don't know yet and then someone can have an ingenious idea.
David B
Exactly. It seems like a fun problem to work on and it can be so niche that you can actually build a working thing within the time allotted.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah, I think the way it would work is that you could just like I looked at their API and basically you have to apply for it. But yeah, if you can just get like three calls and then have them and then have the competitors just use that data and see what they can do and then you could have a prize for Best, I guess. Best high height mapper? Standalone project. Best EFX standalone project. And then best that uses both. Kind of like remember that AssemblyAI project? Like how they had different categories based on what you used.
David B
Exactly. We are trying to establish partnerships with other projects at the moment.
Jesse Eisses
So.
David B
We do think that's the way forward for now for the next hackathon.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah, I'm hoping we can get some partnerships and then not only that, the things being made are something that are mutually beneficial for everyone partnered, so there's a reason to keep doing it. I don't necessarily want to have one super big hackathon because that's kind of how it felt like the first one. Right. We had a good one and I was like oh yeah. And then has it been like two years now? Yeah. So it would be nice to just have a consistency of something enough to get people participating every maybe twice a year or something so we can have a consistency in the new DApps being built.
David B
Indeed.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah.
David B
I think we might have been a bit too we overreached a bit in the first one instead of being consistent about it. But I do think that's a pretty good feedback point.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah. For now, the idea to collaborate is I think also great because we can get more it makes hackathons more fun and it gives them a topic and it will give a bit more dynamic elements. I think it's a great way to attract also more people. So for next hackathon, we're working on it. I think Gabi has a few calls, had a few calls this week or at least one call this week with someone that was interested to partnering on the hackathon. But either Ocean Protocol or Hype Mapper or something would be great. Like use cases for combining in a hackathon. I think that's a really nice suggestion and I completely agree that having more consistent hackathons is the goal from now on. So at least to a year and then make sure that we're executing on them professionally and make sure that the results coming out of them are good. Should definitely be the way to go for it.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Right, and the way effect works is with all these other protocols, we're not actually in direct competition with them, I guess. Not yet anyway. Maybe eventually you'll build it so you can run a script to offer AI services, but I think that's a long ways away. With Ocean Protocol. It's a data marketplace. With Hive mapper. They want to sell their map tools. Yeah, hopefully. I wonder if there's other projects like this that we just need to find.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, I think there's a lot of options and indeed we're not competition with any of them. We're actually a really nice connector when it comes to that. Also with AI companies, would be great to have more of them also involved, either creating data sets or integrating a human in the loop in an AI. These were all topics we were just brainstorming a little bit about before. So if the Echo has a topic like that and we partner with, or if it's about data and OSHA program, it's about human in the loop, we could see if there's like an AI provider that we can partner. But it would be really nice to combine it with some more project.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah. I'm also planning with my Pomelo grant at some point to have all these tasks, or rather to have all these NFTs that I've annotated, to have workers evaluate them and I think that would be a really good data set to post on Ocean Protocol and also Kaggle and maybe even Hugging Face as well. Speaking of which, I know you had your grant, David, for hugging Face the tool. Are you going to work on that? Indeed, once the next season starts?
David B
Yeah, definitely. They want to make a prototype before the next season starts just to show that I'm interested in building it and I can give a bit more of.
Jesse Eisses
A.
David B
Visual to people and I can convey the idea a bit better compared to the previous season.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah, and also you just need to make sure you send it right when the season starts in that little period because I know you submitted it late, so that alone will help give it an advantage.
David B
Yeah, that's right, absolutely. I didn't realize how much of a difference that would make, but aside from.
DJSTRIKANOVA
That, I'll make sure to campaign and make sure to remind everyone that all donations are appreciated. That should help out too.
David B
Indeed. I think I did see an email come by today that I can actually claim the formula rewards, if I'm not mistaken.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah.
DJSTRIKANOVA
That'S great because with my grant I've been talking with the Facing team and so I think I have a call with them a couple of weeks from now to discuss the collection manager and their plugin tool. But aside from that, I'm probably going to just enhance my demo and make it more useful. Like you can actually go to the NFT when you find it and stuff like that. Going to have to figure out a full feature list. So you could basically search for NFTs and also buy them by going to Atomic Hub with a link and stuff like that. And then you mentioned, I wonder what the best way to do with it. But if a Fact network has basically a list of valid NFT collections and then I wonder if I can just integrate that with my demo and pull that. And then so people can search of the valid collections like what type of characteristics they want so they can kind of have more leeway in the type of profile picture they want by searching characteristics for everything that's okay to use.
David B
Yeah, that sounds great. Sounds like it should be doable.
Jesse Eisses
Sorry, I missed a little bit of that part. Like what characteristics for the profile pictures?
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah, I don't know if maybe if you'll just have it on GitHub or something like the because I imagine it will be programmatic, but I don't necessarily need to do a call to the blockchain. I could just check like some GitHub repo really now that I think about it, just do it manually, much easier. So you said there are collections that Dow members could use for their profile picture, right? And so my demo lets you search all NFTs and find characteristics that you want. So I'm just thinking like I could just have a filter so that you can filter only for effect dow capable NFTs and then you can search for characteristics you want so you can kind of have a specialized profile picture for yourself based on what you want to see.
Jesse Eisses
That's amazing. Yeah, that would be cool. So you could search for it will be really cool if we could see if they're also for sale on Atomic Hubs so you could actually buy them straight away, but that's maybe more advanced. But it would be great if you could search for matching profile or pictures that you like and that also sort of match the dimensions and the style of the profile. So you can search in your tool because the search was great in your demo. So that would be amazing to have as a tool for dominance.
DJSTRIKANOVA
I can definitely check if it's for sale or not. It would be tricky for me if I wanted to actually create the marketplace itself because I don't know how to do that. But I definitely can use the Automobile API to check if it's for sale or not and then have a link to it, to the listing if it is. And I think that will be sufficient. Yeah, because I think that would be a very nice feature because then people could actually use it to buy things and interact with NFT instead of just search images, but that's just because I made it really basic. I think the next fundraising round for this coming season, that will be my goal, to kind of enhance the demo, make it much more useful.
David B
Indeed. Using the atomic up SDK. It's really nice to work with. It's relatively easy. They have a really interesting interface as well for you to test out, doing calls with it.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Is there anything else on the agenda?
David B
I don't think so.
Rochelle
The agenda going on the blockchain.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Oh, yeah.
Rochelle
I looked up in the Google Sheet form and I was like, how long have we been doing in this way? And it's crazy. We've been doing this since November of 2021. That's crazy. So we've been doing it for a whole year and where did my thing go? Here I am. And I think we had a little bit of a discussion about it yesterday in the team meeting. And we're thinking about figuring a way for on the Dow dashboard. It to people can fill it out and submit and then a place where you can see what's on the current agenda and then see past agendas. And every time something's added to the agenda, it's posted on the blockchain. What are your thoughts?
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah, I mean, we might as well also have the Dow summaries on there now that we have a High Guard. We can have the High Guard. Okay. Any IPFS post or something?
Rochelle
Yeah.
DJSTRIKANOVA
So it could be like it's similar to the archive I have, just like it will be on IPFS and on the dashboard or something.
David B
Yeah, exactly. We were just thinking it would be a table in the contract and we would just store it in the IPFS hash. And then there will be a small interface in order for you to be able to submit forms and or attachments, like the transcript and the recording.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, I think it's an idea. It would be great anyways to have it on the website. I would like to see also on the Dow interface, that's something we want to add still before we release it to have clearly on the page of the Dow front page, basically. When is the next call coming up? And these are like that you can click on, see the agenda items and see the and add new agenda items. And I think putting it on chain would be like a really feasible way to do it because that's how the Dow works. I think every part of the Dow so far of the dashboard is sort of decentralized. So it would be nice to have that on chain. I don't think it would make it more hard. Yeah, I'm totally down for trying that out and see if it can replace the Google Sheet because honestly, I know we use it always. I always trouble finding it and it's not too transparent for me, the Google Sheet that we have now. So I'm all for it.
DJSTRIKANOVA
Like a thing that's nice. Sorry, go ahead. I was going to say it's nice to have, but I don't know if I prefer the force updates. Right.
Jesse Eisses
Yeah, it's definitely not a priority. It will be low priority thing to add, but depending on how easy it is, if we can quickly do it or not. But I agree, it's not high on the list of things to make.
Rochelle
Yeah, Google is centralized and we're a decentralized dow and building it out and just kind of makes sense that we move away from it being on Google.
Jesse Eisses
I have to jump off in a little bit, guys. I think these were the most important what's the last item right on the agenda?
DJSTRIKANOVA
Yeah, I think we covered everything.
David B
Indeed.
Jesse Eisses
Cool. Then I'm going to jump off because I have to do a bit more work, but yeah, good call. We'll share updates in Discord and let's take it from there. Thanks, everyone. Thanks DJ. And speak soon.
DJSTRIKANOVA
All right, see you, everyone.
Jesse Eisses
See you later.
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